“Dear, please do not reinvent VSK9 and Dracotail in Genesys so blatantly.”
COSTS GOING UP
Chicken Game 0->7
Dark World Dealings 0->5
Demise of the Land 0->1
Dimension Shifter 5->10
Dominus Spiral 0->10
Dracotail Arthalion 10->20
Evilswarm Ouroboros 0->67
Foolish Burial Goods 0->3
Into the Void 1->3
K9-04 Noroi 0->10
K9-66a Jokul 0->13
Ketu Dracotail 0->20
Left Arm Offering 0->7
Lightsworn Dragonling 0->10
Lyrilusc – Beryl Canary 0->5
Lyrilusc – Bird Call 0->20
Mathmech Sigma 0->7
Multi-Universe 0->3
Metaverse 0->3
Number 38: Hope Harbinger Dragon Titanic Galaxy 10->20
Number 60: Dugares the Timeless 0->10
Number 67: Pair-a-Dice Smasher 0->67
Number F0: Utopic Draco Future 0->20
Numbers Eveil 0->70
Ohime the Manifested Mikanko 0->33
Ojama Duo 0->2
Ojama Trio 0->3
Planet Pathfinder 0->3
Prohibition 0->100
Pseudo Space 0->3
Psi-Blocker 0->61
Sales Ban 0->100
Star Seraph Scepter 0->5
Star Seraph Sovereignty 0->5
Transaction Rollback 0->7
Trap Holic 0->7
Vanquish Soul Hollie Sue 0->10
COSTS GOING DOWN
Arahime the Manifested Mikanko 33->0
Blackwing – Chinook the Snow Blast 5->0
Blackwing – Zephyros the Elite 15->13
Block Dragon 40->33
Droll & Lock Bird 7->5
Gladiator Rejection 20->15
Harpie’s Feather Duster 33->30
Heavy Storm 25->20
Infinite Impermanence 15->13
Monster Reborn 20->15
Mulcharmy Meowls 5->3
Premature Burial 27->25
Return of the Dragon Lords 10->7
Comments from the official blog:
The initial points list was frozen at the end of August so we could focus on the Genesys launch without constant additional changes. So we’ve built up a bit of a backlog from further internal testing. And now your results will affect the points, moving forward!
Cards that universally see a ton of play will see their point costs go up. Cards that don’t see any play will often see their point costs come down. And of course we’ll always keep both hands on the steering wheel to make sure that no FTK combos creep in (even if nobody’s playing them – point decay is not automatic).
We’re thinking the ideal update timing is somewhere in the 4-6 weeks range, but that will depend on data availability. In order to see which cards are getting used (and not used), we need Deck Lists. We’ll have the Deck Lists from the big events that we’re running, like the Genesys Invitationals we’re running at upcoming YCS events. But we’re really hoping to see Deck Lists from in-store Genesys tournaments, Genesys public events run at Regionals, etc. Tournament organizers have never been required to send those to us, but you can help out too by talking about what cards you’re seeing (and are winning) at your local events. Just talk about it in the usual places. We’ll see it. If you can add #YGOGenesys to your posts, even better!
We’re also flexible on the update schedule. If you’d prefer a longer gap between changes, or updates only when new sets come out, we could do that too, if enough people want it.
Speaking of new sets, you’ll notice Dominus Spiral and K9-04 Noroi, from Doom of Dimensions, have immediate point costs. Existing “Dominus” cards already have point costs. Existing “K9” cards already have point costs. So we think Duelists would expect strong new cards from these lines to come with at least some nominal point cost upon release. This was also common feedback from the folks who had an early look at Genesys before it was announced.
But at the same time, we’re thinking it would be a little weird to pre-assign point costs to brand-new themes, like “DoomZ” or “Radiant Typhoon” (both from Doom of Dimensions) right away. Let’s see where they end up, first. Do you agree? Let us know!
Your first chance to talk to us directly about any of this will be at YCS Anaheim where the first Genesys Invitational and its qualifiers will be going on! We hope to see you there!
P.S. Whenever we update points, the Deck-builder web site will always have them first, and we’ll post an article here right away. The point list at the main Genesys page will probably lag behind a little bit. Don’t panic! And keep in mind we’re still in early access and are hoping to revamp this in the near future.
52 Comments
Not a big fan of handtrap cost reductions but hey seeing them adjust more stuff is great
To be fair,it’s easier to allow handtraps then to try and hit every tier 4 dies to 1 ht combo deck
Ha, Number 67 is 67 points
The point reduction choices are crazy. Block Dragon, Duster, Droll, and Burial
Is this system going to be driven on trying to trigger people so they make memes and shocking YT thumbnails?
Is Droll that good in the format tho ?
Droll isn’t good in this format. Cost should be 0, no one is really going to play maxx c when they need the points for more HT’s if they are going that route and all good search and draw cards are not be commonly seen in multiples if at all.
Storm/Duster aren’t crazy at all. Backrow decks are pretty powerful under this type of format as solemn cards are too cheap and stuff like torrential is at cost 0. They are pushing the format in a direction where you wnat removal.
“Is this system going to be driven on trying to trigger people so they make memes and shocking YT thumbnails?”
That happens with any system.
I like that they are willing to communicate with us about the decisions they make
Lol they don’t cost down the armed dragon, the armored dragon at all
I strongly recommend they use negative points for cards that are bricks to have, like monsters from LOB which are weak, require tribute and have no synergy with other cards.
New cards coming out without any cost is a huge mistake.
This way, new archtypes will be always overpowered since most of their cards will cost 0, until the banlist (cost adjustment) hits them, and then the cycle repeats.
That’s pretty much how traditional already works, and the reason we as fans are wiling to try new and different formats.
The ideal would be that new cards come with predefined cost based on their rarity. For example:
Common = 0
Rare = 10
Super = 20
Ultra = 30
Secret = 40
I think strong cards should be slightly pre hit, but tying it to rarity is ridiculous.
Tying it it rarity is very much dumb.
Tying it to rarity is perhaps the dumbest thing that’s been commented on a post regarding Genesys, and that’s a HIGH bar,
Yeah, rarity point allocation is stupid
lmao, they really did confuse arahime with orihime
Even they didnt bother to read mikanko xd
Yeah as someone who plays that deck frequently I chuckled a bit when I saw Arahime on the list.
And Drytron gets another hit (F0) lol.
Wait, how do Drytron players even put utopic future on the field ? 1 mu beta fafnir and a fucho ? is it worth it the 2 extra decks slots for it ?
Genesys is the worst format of all time
Cool. Then don’t play it. Enjoy Master Duel while the rest of us enjoy the game again.
Anyone thinking they’ll enjoy the game again with this format is in for a rude awakening.
A bunch of issues aren’t fixed and as long as new product isn’t overhit, they will never be fixed. However, if new product is overhit, the format will have a hard time developing, which will make it pretty stale.
In this format, bad decks are still bad and decks with the highest access to staples have a huge advantage over those that are nerfed. Something like eldl is very strong now that they fixed K9 & dracotail because your deck is too restrictive. You either play cards to curve combo decks or backrow decks, you can’t have both.
That’s why duster & storms need severe point reductions (& why they adjusted them already).
To Iamkonami stop whining, god yugioh players have the bigest avergion to anything new
And to Random how about give it a try it’s less than week nobody is think taht worrock or some other bad deck will be meta. And yes you can have both not as powerfull that’s the obejtive of the format use other card then the best ones
What are you talking about, people are having fun woth this format like never before. Two-player game is back, backrow matters again, solitaire is for MD only, heavy locks like “i made this board now you cant play yugioh”, or a simple hand trap that says “skip your turn” are not abused anymore, if you play them, you can play OP endboard pieces
This reminds me the experience points on deckbuilding from older yugioh videogames
Wait they actually actually eyplain themselves here? What? That’s a first.
The format was nostalgia bait from the beginning made by people who don’t even understand why some cards are broken.
>Nostalgia bait
>New cards cost least points
Wot?
Sales Ban going from zero to one-hundred LMFAO
Card is really strong in limited pool formats. It didn’t need to be banned TBH, just putting it at 40-50 was enough.
No one will sacrifice more generic staples for this. It was very good side deck card at 0 points of cost. Same as prohibition
They forgot the Rhongo cheese with Numbers Eveil
You mean to tell me they were “working on this format for over 2 years” but forgot to “unfreeze” the banlist for the format reveal. I see.
They have not been working at this for a long time.
Is pretty evident with stuff like darkworld dealings or chicken game not being hit on the first list or when stuff like storm and duster still have costs that exceed 10 each (or droll having a cost at all when all good search cards are limited/banned).
“Cards that universally see a ton of play will see their point costs go up. Cards that don’t see any play will often see their point costs come down. And of course we’ll always keep both hands on the steering wheel to make sure that no FTK combos creep in (even if nobody’s playing them – point decay is not automatic)”
I don’t understand what kind of logic this is. Even if we assume that this will somehow force most people out of their comfort zones (spoiler: they won’t), it’s completely counterintuitive to reduce the most viable cards to the same usage range as the regular banlist or a rotation format.
If they wanted to make diverse or more “restrictive” formats, it would have been better to go with the monthly events that Master Duel runs around one or two mechanics with a banlist tailored to the needs of the moment. Everyone is free to do whatever they want with their time, but this experiment isn’t even consistent with their own logic
I wanted to build Lightsworn, but now the Lightsworn Dragonling is up to 10. I think that’s fair, but why does Charge of the Light Brigade cost exactly the same as Graceful Charity?
They want to increase variance by eliminating consistency as opposed to curving the power creep which they cannot control as the main sets are designed for a different format.
The search cards are pretty much banned, as you usually have a better choice at similar or less cost like PoG or Graceful.
Just kill this bad yet creative idea already!
i want to like this, because lord knows Yugioh desparately needs alternative ways to play, especially with modern cards, but I feel like this is already way more bloated and confusing than a Regular Forbidden and Limited list
Yes. Is unnecessarily complex and convoluted.
They either design a controlled format with product that everyone will want (which was the error of speed duels as no one wanted old cards)
(I.e. We release 12 structure decks in 3 waves of 4 per release, so a deck display has two pieces of each.
We make sure that at least some decks have reprints of good cards from the last season & we build the pool from those decks.
You could even do a core set for this format at the beginning of each season. This way, you can control power creep and you can gove fan favorite archtypes a chance to shine as you rotate the first 4 when decks 13-16 arrive).
Or they do a highlander format with higher deck counts & the most powerful staples banned. This way, the powercreep will be drastically easier to control too.
This format is really flawed, it never works unless you specifically design product around this.
Is very hard to follow the points as the list is gigantic, some decks like centurion or millenium are clearly overhit while they missed obvious stuff they corrected with this “adjustment” which wasn’t a good outlook as we had two lists in one week already. Don’t do that ever again.
Other feedback, Stuff like droll having value when every relevant search or draw card costs a lot is laughable, or stuff like dojo and ascetism being there with high costs while the full deck is basically banned is absurd, the problem with the fair version of six sams are multi shien fields, make them 20-30 each (keep powerful generic negating synchros at 100), keep gate at 100 and leave the rest at 0, including smoke signal (what are you going to do? Take -1 for multiple synchro kizans/goyo/catastor?). They didn’t test the format enough, this is a MVP which isn’t bad, but makes evident how rushed this release is & isn’t inspiring me confidence that this is a good product.
Moreover, they will have to adjust the points every time a new product is released, otherwise, brand new decks that aren’t link and pendulum based have access to more non engine cards than older decks, which gives them unfair advantage. This is a critical flaw of the design of the format as overhitting prevents format development (as hitting new decks a lot means format isn’t changing) and under hitting ruins a format.
On the other side, by doing so, and also making monthly adjustments to the point system, most of your testing will be moot, as you basically have to check point values every monday and decide how you’ll play that week, is inconvenient and doesn’t allow for efficient card purchasing.
Absolutely hit cards prior to release. Prevent the “new deck, is always best deck” bad design. Because why would I buy cards when the next release is better? And the release after that is better. And the release after that is better. Etc.
A few cards to note that should be looked at:
1. There are at least 9 ways that searches Djinn, Releaser of Rituals.
2. Adamancipator is really strong, they can play through disruptions, tear apart a board, then attack for game. Gallant Granite needs to be at like 61, if Dragite is 10 and Block Dragon is 30.
3. Exosister is basically untouched. A very powerful archetype.
4. Eldlich is basically untouched. A very powerful archetype.
5. Be aware of the power of giving your opponent tokens. Some decks can skip a players turn by giving them tokens.
6. Macro Cosmos and Dimensional Fissure are still strong floodgates.
Suggestion for point costs:
1. Don’t be afraid if powerful cards like Painful Choice has 1 searcher. Left Arm Offering doesn’t need to be 7 points, it can be 3 or 5 and it won’t break anything.
2. Last Will is very powerful, summoning any one of thousands of cards. But it’s competition is fierce, it can easily be like 50.
3. Don’t forget cost is competition. Number 97: Draglubion is a very powerful card, but it’s not worth more than 60. It’s not going to break the game if it is in a Galaxy-Eyes or Blue-Eyes deck.
4. Loosen the grip on some archetypes. There is a difference between unplayable and weaker.
Suggestion for the future:
1. Add pendulums. A lot of people love them. For people that hate them, deal with them or don’t play them.
2. Add Links. But like, have a list of Link Monsters allowed. Proxy Dragon isn’t breaking the game, but sending cards to the graveyard to trigger effects will.
a. DO NOT ADD ANOTHER MONSTER ZONE WHEN ADDING LINKS, the extra monster zone be any one of the 5 monster zones that the player chooses.
b. Any empty zone the Link monster points to becomes a monster zone, you are ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS limited to 5 monsters.
Simple. Easy.
Allowed Link monsters can be like Crusadia, World Legacy, Sky Strikers, Fur Hire, Maliss, Code Talker (NOT ACCESSCODE) etc.
Stupid suggestions. But i appreciated your yapping
The purpose of the ban on Pends/Links is to appeal to yugiboomers, it has nothing to do with balance.
you had me until you said add links. Sky strikers is a good deck and I hate it
I think everyone should relax and give it a chance. Just wait til it’s available then everyone can make their grandiose opinions.
We shouldn’t give it a chance to start providing obvious feedback like
“Hey, if you don’t overhit new decks that aren’t link or pendulum based, the format is going to suck as they will play more generics than others. Also, if you overhit them, meta won’t develop and the format will be stale”
Or
“Why are you heavy storm and duster costs so high when solemn costs are so low?”
Or
“New decks need to be prevented, but prevention is too expensive on this format. Meanwhile, stuff like eldl, will ruin me if i don’t run removal and play prevention instead” is fun as they started to realize this, and that’s why the adjusted storm down. Storm needs to be a 10 card at most so at least is considerable for side board and people is aware they can be punished by it.
——
Is not about giving it a chance or not, is about providing honest feedback as soon as possible so the format is fun and isn’t abandoned by the playerbase because they made idiotic hits like shiens dojo instead of K9 cards.
i knew it. since no F/L list. point adjustments will be the deciding factor and it would be several changes early on to adjust before the first major event. they didnt realize some combos or over/under estimated some cards and gotta do a quick adjustment
I’m not seeing a shifter point increase
oh, it’s because I have selective blindness
NOOOO, MY PRECIOUS BIRBS!!
Didnt expect Lyrilsucs to get hit this fast. But they are pretty potent without interruption.
I’m glad that there’s some weak, viable, and strong free options for us to use. Kaijus, swords of concealing light, herald of the abyss, dark ruler no more, and ultimate slayer not being hit is nice.
One critique I have is how the points are allotted to cards. What should have been done: ftk enablers, cards that in essence skip your opponent’s turn, power draw spells, floodgates, and generic monsters that can omni negate should all be set to a steeper cost so theres no world where you can abuse the possibility of multiples or have one in that matter. Set all archetypal cards to zero, run your events, collect your data, AND THEN assign points onto cards that are too strong. That way, there are no issues with cards—by extension other cards related to it/them, being overpriced, while allowing everyone the luxury to run the handtraps and/or board breakers they want, not just the small number of decks that are painted as the golden child because of recency bias, negligence, or unawarness.
Honestly need to hit exosister next